have the winner. >> brenda: and jonas. >> sales to turkey, people drinking and more fender benders, and sold by 3m. >> brenda: and jim bull or bear. >> i think he's drinking something, i don't agree. it's a boring pick. >> brenda: cavuto on business. >> david: ready to go fiscal cliff diving? apparently a lot of businesses and shoppers are already afraid of the fall. i'm charles payne in for neil cavuto. with the holiday shopping season underway a lot of consumers are saying no way. and more than half saying the uncertainty around the fiscal cliff will impact their spending and job creators are cutting back on spending and a bad deal for the economy? well, let's ask. ben stein, dagen mcdowell, charlie gasperino and gary k. want to start with you. bad deal for all of us? >> of course, look, business

investment was already down last quarter over 1%, and the word uncertainty just pervades the air and its business, its consumer, how about philanthropic organizations don't no what kind of write-offs for charity and the worst the outcome is probably going to be more, and taxes are going to go up and of course there will be no spending cuts. >> and ben, it does sound ominous, even if you're not someone who reads the wall street journal, the fiscal cliff, fiscal cliff, it could be the-- i don't know intimidation factor, it could actually be worse than going over the cliff. >> i think that's a brilliant point, charles. if we went over the cliff for a few months the impact would not be enormous, and uncertainty is a bad word and fear is a really, really bad words and these are the words that govern the economy today and imperative that democrats put their heart and soul into

a compromise. absolutely imperative. >> dagen, what do you think about this? >> i think you cannot dismiss this, particularly if you're on the left of something as hocus-pocus and fear mongering, you can look, the list of companies that are bulge back spending and some of the biggest names in the ideas, whether it's a wal-mart, ford, disney, you name it. no company is going to commit new money to new jobs if ne don't know what's going to happen in a matter of weeks. >> and charlie, this is the kind of spending that has long-term ramifications not building factories, not buying building, long-term ramifications. >> we should make a point here, these companies are not cutting back because of the fiscal cliff only, no, they are cutting back because with what they fear from president obama getting his way in terms of higher taxes. in determines of higher dividend taxes and higher taxes on just about every piece of the economy and i tell you, don't believe me, go out there and talk to them. they started cutting back way

before this last week. >> i want to take this point. >> and this is the problem, the fiscal cliff is really bad, but the solution offered by president obama of massive taxes is not that good. >> julian, what do you make of that this this is just a pandora's box, and the beginning. the fiscal cliff, could have a short-term impact, but ultimately the trend of higher taxes that charlie's point, is what businesses are really afraid of? >> i totally disagree with that and i think the surveys of businesses have shown that to be wrong and i talked to-- >> whoa, whoa, what survey. >> can i finish the point, charlie. >> you just said survey. >> we'll come back. >> i think that businesses are concerned mostly about whether consumers are going to spend or the not. that's the concern and i think as for the fiscal cliff, no, i don't think that's what it is and as for the fiscal cliff, anybody paying close attention, charlie, honestly we can have a much more intelligence conversation if you stop interrupting me.

>> go ahead, finish. >> i think as for the fiscal cliff, i think that most people watching this closely believe there will be a deal, why? because on taxes, i think even republicans agree they have to give somewhat right now and spending is, taxes are at 15% of gdp right now, it's the lowest they've been in 50 years, even the most right wing republican says that spending should be brought down only to 20% and-- >> wait, wait, and the point-- >> point two is that-- >> go ahead, finish julian fast i want to get gary in. >> point two, a huge opportunity for conservatives. >> democrats want entitlement reform and-- 70% of the budget-- >> gary k back, and listen, i don't want this to be a-- you guys are debating the left and right side of it, i think right now we're talking about, everyone in the country, gary k, seems to know about this more and more as each day goes on and it's already having a serious impact on our economy, and a pretty fragile time. so, here is the thing. is this enough to get lawmakers on both sides of the

aisle to do something or do you think we'll go off the cliff? >> i think they'll get something done, but the solution worries me. since when have we ever seen any spending cuts coming from washington d.c.? charles, spending is going to go up 10 trillion dollars over the next decade and they're telling us they're going to cut a few trillion off of that, so, spending is going to go higher and taxes, my big worry is once they break the top and raise taxes, we're talking marginal rates here, it's not going to stop. that's the worry and i've got to tell you, for me, the biggest irritant of all of this, they waited until the last minute on the debt ceiling and then sold it as the end of the world is coming if we don't get this done now. >> right. >> and waited until the last minute and scaring the living cran out of everybody. >> dagen, let's talk about that because a great article in the journal, businesses are cutting back no doubt about it, but consumers are cutting

back and it's an indictment on everyone in washington. >> one of the reasons if we go over the fiscal cliff and it will hit 90% americans. and lowest income, 30,000 a year a family a tax bill north of $1,000 a year and it hits everybody, to that point people are nervous and they're going to pull back and you can't dismiss this because again, lawmakers time and again, taken us right up to the deadline and paid it. >> and i think-- i want to thank julian for making my point. yes, businesses do believe we'll get a deal. they do and then you've got to ask yourself why are they cutting back? because they know even if they get a deal what president obama has in store in terms of taxes from bank of ameriobamaca the line, every survey. >> and what i think they're-- i think what you're all doing

is talking down the economy, one. two, we're talking about top 2% back to what they were under the clinton rates. and it's wrong to say you haven't seen spending cuts coming from washington. a deal in 1985 on grammar and hollands in 1987. >> julian, julian, i don't want to-- julian. >> and i don't want to get too far off the topic, we're not talking 1985 we're talking now. >> thank you. >> ben, the point is that i want to bring up with you. a lot of people don't realize the stock market crashed after the debt ceiling debate was signed after a deal was reached, then the market crashed. so, even coming up with some sort of deal, i don't know that you can fool the public anymore, can you fool the markets and public kicking the can down the road? >> let me make two respectful points, warren buffett is extremely good businessman says that higher taxes will not impact his decisions to expand or not expand his

buildings or factories and second thing, we're had very, very high taxes and very, very high corporate profits at the same time maybe a third thing with all due respect then what's the solution? we cannot keep running the big sits. >> i will say this with respect to the corporate profits. 1 1/2 trillion dollars is sitting outside of this country. a lot of these corporations when you dig through the numbers, every time they report, they're making money outside of this country. gary k, i think that's the point. businesses aren't making money in america, and sometimes, sometimes the public gets a little bewildered because the market's high beau that's not in direct correlation to our economy. >> i use the word potential. i've been saying this for-- it's a few years now, the potential for this economy keeps getting headwinds, what's the headwinds? the uncertainty out of washington and the potential for higher taxes. we don't have a tax problem, we don't have a revenue problem for washington d.c. this year, we'll have-- they'll be close to the highest revenues ever back from 2007. spending is up over 800

billion dollars this year, than it was in 2007. that's where the deficits are coming from. that's what should be talked about more than taxing people who are working their rear ends off to do better for themselves. >> i've got to telldon't like wt is brought into a discussion about people making $250,000. >> two different worlds. >> he's a very good business man. >> an amazing businessman, he doesn't care about taxes. >> he's not the only businessman saying it. >> it's not just the fiscal cliff coming on january 1st, more of the president's health care law is starting to kick in. how much more will you be paying? we're going to find out. hmm, it says here that cheerios helps lower cholesterol as part of a heart healthy diet. that's true.

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>> live from america he's news headquarters, i'm heather childers. america is mourning the loss of dallas star larry hagman. hagman best known for his role as jr ewing from dallas lost his battle with cancer at a dallas hospital.

he was the son of broadway star mary martin and known for his role as tony nelson in "i dream of jeanie". and there are new cardinals, the pope elevated the new principals of the church. and they're tasked with advising the pope and electing the person who succeeds him. they come from across the globe, colombia, lebanon, nigeria, the philippines and the united states. and for your latest headlines log on to foxnews.com. ♪ >> well, the election is over and the white house is putting out new rules for the health care law, one is telling how to reward workers for living a healthier life. so, ben, you know what? let's put aside the worry that

this is going to drive up cost? isn't this more of the nancy state nonsense? >> big brother is watching you, big brother is watching you through the obama white house, through the department of health and human services and transmit that to the job and also to your employer. i don't like it. i don't want big brother watching me and telling me how much to eat or when to walk or whether or not to smoke, i like to live my own life, and i'm a grownup. i had my mother telling me what to to eat when i'm a child, i'm done with that, i don't want mr. obama to be my mother. >> and i listen to my mommy and calls me and tells me to eat more veggies i will, but i draw the line there. julian, i think it's part of that social utopia coming out of washington these days, not only ultimately expensive, but takes away from personal liberties. it's one thing to try to pick winners and losers in the economy, but to decide on personal behavior just seems wrong in america. >> well, we incentivize behavior we think is good and disinvent advise. >> who is we?

>> who is we? >> the government, the government constantly. so, the point here is i think price waterhouse cooper did a study before the health care law and found the single highest health care expenditures preventible disease, everything from diabetes, heart disease, all kinds of disease that were largely preventible. so the idea that we're going to incentivize good behaving, better diet and nutrition, seems to be something that's smart and end up saving people in the premiums and saving taxpayers a hell of a lot of money. >> dagen, at some point, let's face it, there's a lot of things that we could all do to live a better life. we could become singapore, north korea, this is america and now what? we want to go out and have a twinkie if they're still around, on ebay we should be punished for that. >> we have a choice as a nation and we need to use less health care. the people who have health insurance use too much of it. instead of putting the burden on them to make decisions for

themselves, instead we expand it and have greater government control over health insurance in this nation, so we've made a choice or the president has for us, that the government's going to get more and more involved in what medicines we use, in what medicines are available to us, and frankly nothing in that law that's going to bring down health care costs and right now they're willing to go up. premiums are going up for employers and individuals and we have to wait and see how much they will go up. >> now, charlie, i don't know if you're following this, you're a health nut. >> i did a public service last week, the president should be giving me one of the commendations. >> might be in the mail. >> for calling twinkies legalized poison you don't haven't to to listen to this, but listen to me. >> shame on you. >> listen, you bought it you own it, right? we've got this law, you're going to have government sponsored health care, expect the government to tell you what to do and what not to do because listen we're on the hook for this stuff. in the context of the health

care law which i hate, this is a pretty good thing, telling people what they should eat, what they shouldn't eat so they-- people eat such garbage, that leads to disease. >> you know, listen. >> bad stuff. >> and people eat garbage and read garbage, what does some panel decide what i do in my own personal life. >> but if it costs me money. >> sometimes it won't. >> and the health care does now, it's a law. >> and gary k jump in there. >> doesn't anybody find it a little comedic and ironic the same people who tell you salt is bad for you, we can't even drink large sodas, but let's speak weed because let's make that legal. >> i don't think that's in the health care law. >> is that in the health care law? >> my bigger point is government get involved in every decision we make. >> it's there. >> the daily life and it's not the way this country was-- >> they're there, what are we going to do? it's the law. we've got the law and now you've got--

>> and i don't want to pay for someone ales twinkie habit, okay? >> what about people, why don't you tell people they can't have sex and then you-- >> and i don't have to-- >> and by the way, if we subsidize the outcome of sex, we might be on the hook for that, too. >> all right. guys. >> and there's much more-- >> hold on one second. final from julian. >> much larger point, the government through our tax code incentivizes buying a home and going to school. all we're talking about doing here is creating incentives in the system not to engage in unhealthy behavior that most of the rest of us end up having to subsidize. >> yet the government encourages you to get it on. i'll leave it this, the government does encourage you to get it on, tax breaks for having kids. >> and encouraging to get it on and a major-- >> and julian and charlie gasperino on the same page after all. >> and hey, guys with the college football season kicking into high gear,

there's a new report showing that college football coaches, they're scoring millions in salaries and a penalty flag as their tuition keeps rising, but the gang at forbes saying this is actually a win for those kids and they will have the money at the top of the hour. up here next, remember this? >> there will be no more taxpayer funded bailouts period. well, if that's the case why are we hearing about a potential 93 billion dollar government bailout? we report. well, you may want to go hide. i always wait until the last minute. can i still ship a gift in time r christmas? yeah, sure you can. great. where's your gift? uh... whew. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. ship fedex express by december 22nd for christmas delivery.

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>> because of this reform, the american people will never again be asked to foot the bill for wall street's mistakes. there will be no more taxpayer funded bailouts, period. >> no more taxpayer funded bailouts, not so fast. turns out the federal housing administration is running on empty with all the mortgages it's backing, one report saying it could eventually need as much as 93 billion bucks. gary k? here we go again. >> my friend we'll be bailing out the bailouts and that's the type of nation we've become. everything off the taxpayers back and it's just going to continue infinitum. the fha was okay, and now we're talking 93 billion. i've got news, 93 billion see it at 150 when all is said and done. >> ben stein, what do you think about this. >> it has to be bailed out.

it's a government guarantee, it's unfortunate it happened and i feel bad about it. a governor gain tee has to be honored. >> charlie. >> it has to be bailed out. let's delineate. it's fha, part of the government. and the difference between fannie mae and freddie mac. and they were public companies, and there was stock and they were covered by the government. these guys don't have stock. yes, we have to bail them out, accepted and it's government. >> people have been getting 3 1/2% down money mortgages. 3 1/2%, it was 20% in the 30's, 10% in the 60's. 5% is how much you have to have down if you refinance through the fha. if anybody's gotten an fha mortgage and you're in trouble then it's their fault. the americans who we are lending money to to buy these homes. >> and you know, julian, i've got to tell you, you know, in this bailout culture i know they spent the last four years trying to convince the american public that it worked, isn't this a message

from all of things we've talked about. the golf doing too many things and no accountability with all the individuals out there and costing people who actually work and pay taxes more and more money. at some point we've got to cut off the spigot. >> the i think the premise of the question is wrong. tarp ended up making taxpayers money and the-- >> it's been a rigged system. >> 0% interest rates and-- >> charlie, interrupt. >> and let me finish. >> the taxpayers ended up making money on tarp and we didn't make even on the auto bailout and saved an industry. i think if there's a bailout a lot of steps the fha it take before there is a bailout. if you do have one, you have the structured-- >> julian, julian, real fast. >> let me finish the point. >> no, i'm going to ask you this fast you're clicking off the winners. how much did we make on fannie mae and freddie mac? >> and didn't use a lot of money for a lot of reasons and-- >> well, charles. >> not getting it right. >> real fast, let me finish

the point. charlie if you want to do a simple google check see the business leaders last week that called for hire-- >> fair and balanced and if you don't believe us, go check google. do a google check. >> and we've got to thank charlie and dagen. >> don't tell charlie to google anything. >> guys, up next, are you ready for thanksgiving seconds? not talking turkey, i'm talking about stocks. the picks to be thankful for and for you to gobble up next. n, but he'll wk his way up from busser to waiter to chef before opening a restaurant specializing in fish and me from the great northwest. he'll start investing early, he'll find some good people to help guide him, nd he'll set money aside from his first day of work to his last, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade.

>> giving thanks for our gang's stock picks. >> i like am. tough market refuse to go down and consistent earnings. >> and bioteches and you like this one, ben? >> love it. great, great, great company. >> what stox do you like. >> get it on with ew. it is the best thing ever and going to be the next chin a. >> you agree, gary.